This week we welcome back Laura Leopard and Phil Flora from Leopard Solutions to discuss their latest innovation, the PROWESS platform. This newly launched tool aims to transform the way corporate legal departments manage and evaluate their relationships with outside counsel. As Leopard Solutions embarks on this new phase after its acquisition by SurePoint, Laura and Phil delve into how PROWESS brings unprecedented capabilities to legal teams by centralizing data, enhancing decision-making, and simplifying the selection process of legal talent.
Laura explains that the PROWESS platform was born out of the need to streamline the outdated methods many in-house legal teams use to locate outside counsel. Rather than relying on personal contacts or spreadsheets, PROWESS leverages Leopard Solutions’ extensive database of over 6,000 law firms to offer data-driven insights. The platform allows legal departments to search for attorneys and law firms by specialization, diversity metrics, and even billing structures, providing a comprehensive overview that helps corporate counsel make informed, strategic choices for their legal needs.
One of the key features of PROWESS is its 360-degree firm report and ranking system, powered by Leopard Solutions’ unique data-driven methodology. Phil explains how the platform’s rankings go beyond traditional metrics, focusing on firm growth, retention, and diversity within the attorney ranks. By incorporating continuous updates and client feedback, the ranking system serves as a real-time indicator of a firm’s standing in the market. Over time, the platform will enable in-house teams to provide feedback on engagements, further refining the rankings and enabling firms to showcase the quality of their work.
The PROWESS platform also offers law firms an opportunity to proactively market their strengths. Law firms can contribute their own data to the platform, such as alternative fee arrangements and attorney billing rates, which helps them stand out in searches. Laura and Phil highlight how this “passive marketing” tool allows firms to differentiate themselves in a competitive market, as corporate clients can explore and assess options they may not have previously considered. Phil emphasizes that this feature is particularly valuable for smaller and mid-sized firms, allowing them to compete alongside larger firms by showcasing their specific expertise.
In closing, Laura and Phil share their vision for the future of PROWESS. They envision it evolving into a more comprehensive marketplace, potentially allowing firms to bid on posted matters. Both are excited about the potential for increased transparency and efficiency in the legal industry as PROWESS matures, facilitating stronger relationships between law firms and in-house legal teams. With plans to integrate AI-driven features and client feedback mechanisms, Leopard Solutions is poised to shape the future of legal talent management and engagement.
Links:
Leopard Solutions PROWESS
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Twitter: @gebauerm, or @glambert
Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
Music: Jerry David DeCicca
TRANSCRIPT
Marlene Gebauer (00:01)
Welcome to the Geek in Review, the podcast focused on innovative and creative ideas in the legal industry. I’m Marlene Gebauer.
Greg Lambert (00:08)
And I’m Greg Lambert. And today we are talking with some returning guests, Laura Leopard and Phil Flora from Leopard Solutions about the new Leopard PROWESS which is a tool they created to help corporate legal departments identify, manage, and track legal engagements with their outside counsel. Laura and Phil, it’s good to have you back on the show.
Marlene Gebauer (00:13)
Yay!
Laura Leopard (00:32)
Well, thank you so much for having us back. It was great fun the last time. So looking forward.
Marlene Gebauer (00:37)
We might be, we might be nearing like smoking jacket and tierra status. think I’m not sure. Yeah. Yeah.
Phil Flora (00:37)
So always great to catch up with you guys.
Greg Lambert (00:37)
Yeah
Yeah, this may be three for Laura. yeah, once you get five, you get your choice of a smoking jacket or a tiara.
Phil Flora (00:43)
Ha ha ha ha.
Laura Leopard (00:45)
Fantastic! I love it!
Phil Flora (00:52)
Thank you.
Laura Leopard (00:53)
I’m gonna hold you to that.
Greg Lambert (00:55)
You got it.
Marlene Gebauer (00:57)
So Laura, before we start talking about PROWESS, I want to know how things have changed or stayed the same at Leopard Solutions since the acquisition by SurePoint.
Laura Leopard (01:08)
Well, for a number of things, a number of reasons, it stayed pretty much the same, except that we have access to work with a lot of really great, smart people and collaborate with teams from SharePoint. And it also sort of brought clear something to us about what it is we do.
right, for law firms specifically. Practice management is more than timekeeping and billing, which is what you see in most practice management software kits, right? It’s about managing your practice, your whole practice. And that’s where Leopard comes in, because we can help you grow your firm. We can tell you what practices are popular at the moment, where demand is. Do you need to open an office? Where might that be? So Leopard really
works with SharePoint clients to help them manage their firm in a holistic, different way. And while we had been working for law firms for very long time, I never really put that together, that we are really helping them in practice management and managing their whole firm. We help with recruiting needs, we help with intelligence needs, knowing what the market is saying and what they should do. And now we’re married with a practice management software company.
And together, we really can solve most problems that law firms have. They work with a lot of mid-size law firms, which is great for us because they need the same intelligence and the same growth needs that larger firms have. So it’s really been a great experience. And it’s been great for those clients as well to be able to tap into the power that Leopard can bring.
to help them grow their firm and be where they want to be in the market.
Greg Lambert (03:11)
Yeah, I know it was interesting because the amount, the spirit, the data that you guys have going into SharePoint. Let me flip the question, either Phil or Laurie, either one of you want to answer this. What’s SharePoint seeing as the value of the acquisition as well?
Laura Leopard (03:26)
Thank
Phil Flora (03:33)
Bye.
I can take that one to start with. think from their clients have been starving for benchmarking data outside of just the financial and billing rate data that you can traditionally gather through time and billing products that sort of anonymize that information, right? You can get some benchmarking reports, but we’ve heard since the acquisition that they’ve been dying for data that they can benchmark on their firm against other firms like them, larger firms.
Laura Leopard (03:42)
you
Okay.
Phil Flora (04:04)
Industry data around like Laura said practice area information people intelligence is what we’ve been really referring to it diversity data headcount growth How firms are structuring themselves? ratios attorney partner relation ratios a lot of data that their clients haven’t been really able to have access to and Most of the data that’s out there, know, that’s been published by you know large, you know Organizations like amla has been mostly focused on like the law firm
with that type of data and it’s there’s not a lot of that for the mid-size and smaller market. So I think SurePoint sees that our data and the type of intelligence that we’ve been providing over the years to those larger firms can also be provided to the small and mid-size firms. So I see that as a big benefit for them. I don’t know what do you think Laura?
Laura Leopard (04:35)
That’s right.
Yeah, absolutely. Again, it’s really opening that aperture of what practice management is. And with Leopard, they can very easily do that and to service the firm holistically with all of their needs.
Greg Lambert (05:09)
Well, apparently no moss has grown on you since the acquisition. So you guys have been busy and created a new offering called Leopard PROWESS. So let me ask you, Laura, what inspired the creation of Leopard PROWESS and how does it fit into your broader mission?
Laura Leopard (05:12)
the
Well, like most great products, It’s here because there’s a real need for it. You know, when we started 20 years ago, legal recruiters worked with a Rolodex. They worked with a pad and a pen and a phone, and that’s what they worked with. And over the years, we have really revolutionized how legal recruiting can happen.
Phil Flora (05:33)
Yeah.
Laura Leopard (05:57)
and who can do it and who you can access. And during that time, lateral recruitment has really exploded because it’s been easier to do. So today, we know that most in-house counsel, when they are searching for someone to hire to help them with the matter and looking for outside counsel, work in much that same way.
They have a pad, they have a pen, they have a phone, they call someone and they go, Dan, do you know anybody in Denver that does construction work? And that’s how they work. And they use Excel spreadsheets and it’s not a very efficient way to find the best firm or the best attorney to handle your outside matter. And they know that. I listened to an interview, a prowess demo and the in-house counsel said,
Well, this is how I work. I just call someone and I ask them who they know and there has just got to be a better way to skin this cat. And there certainly is, and this is it. You know, we’ve known all along that, because we have so much law firm data. It’s, you know, almost 6,000 law firms in the database. It’s growing all the time. That’s our end goal by the end of the year. And we knew that this would be great for them to have.
Phil Flora (06:58)
Thank
Laura Leopard (07:19)
but they need more than just a compass to go find a lawyer somewhere. They have to vet that attorney. They want to know about the firm. So in order to give them what they wanted in our old system, they would have to buy the BI suite. They’d have to buy, you know, firmscape, and then they could buy the Leopard List, which is the attorney database. It was just overwhelming. It was just too much. So we said, let’s build a product that solves their problems and just pull in all the pieces
that are relevant to what they’re looking for. So we give them the leopard list, which they can search by farm, they can search by attorney. We show them if they’re looking for construction people in Denver, we show them all of those groups. They can look at those groups. They get an overview of how diverse that group is by gender and by ethnic diversity. They can look to see their background to see how many years of experience that they’ve
They can click a button and they get our firmscape report, which is our big 360 degree view of a law firm. And it tells you some about their history, where they stand in our law firm ranking system, and lots of information. We even included a connection report. Because we know they like to call up and go, Dan, who do you know? They like that personal touch, right? So we included a connection report that would match anybody in their company with
attorneys at all of the firms in the leopard list. So you want to call someone you know, we will give you the ability to do that. Here are the six firms that you’re really looking at in Denver. Well, in those firms, you’ve got six people in your company that have connections via, you know, law school or past experience. They worked at this person 10 years ago at a law firm that we covered. So we’re really trying to cover all those bases.
so they can easily vet those firms. They can look at the history of an attorney to vet that attorney. They can even find some personal connections so they can just pick up a phone and call and ask some questions of someone that they know. But what we’re really solving is where is the legal talent? Where is it? I don’t know anybody in Denver.
How can I find who’s in Denver that’s good and that does construction work? And that’s what we’re doing. We are finding, giving them the information on all those attorneys and all those law firms. And we’re helping legal talent that they otherwise would know nothing about bubble to the top. So it’s not just people you don’t know in far flung areas. You could be right here in New York City.
Phil Flora (10:07)
Yes.
Laura Leopard (10:09)
And the company uses the same five firms over and over and over and over. They’re not particularly happy with a couple of them, but that’s who they know, that’s who they’re going to use. They don’t know about the new boutique that opened up last year that’s doing gangbuster business. They don’t know that a firm has just recently opened up a new office in this area that’s chocked full of superstars that does the exact same work that you’re trying to fill. They just don’t know what they don’t know. So we are trying to…
Greg Lambert (10:18)
who they know.
Laura Leopard (10:38)
put all of that information at their fingertips, which really helps them make better data-driven decisions. They’re not locked in to using the same people over and over. Many times those firms get conflicted out on a matter. They can’t use them anyway. Then they’re really stuck trying to find where to go to next. And just calling up the people that you know and trying to get them to refer you to someone is not the most efficient way.
to find your best law partner on a particular matter.
Marlene Gebauer (11:12)
So let me flip that. mean, law firms, traditionally they rely on these longstanding relationships and reputation to secure business. So how does prowess impact this dynamic? I know the clients are kind of looking for this information, but how does it impact the law firms given the way they find their clients?
Laura Leopard (11:18)
Right.
Well, we look at this as a real enterprise product and that means it’s going to benefit in-house counsel and it’s going to benefit law firms.
Marlene Gebauer (11:38)
What opportunities or challenges do you see for law firms?
Laura Leopard (11:55)
We have a system law firms can come in, they can write their own bio so they can appear exactly how they want to appear when they show up in a search. We are allowing them to put in their alternative fee agreements, what kind of agreements that they will accept because that’s really important right now to a lot of in-house counsel. That’s one of their big asks when they go looking for talent.
And also the billing rates of the attorneys at their firms. Now this is in a silo, so this data will not appear in any other product. It’s only gonna appear in front of corporate counsel. But it’s a great way to do sort of passive marketing, right? When your firm shows up on different searches. We’re gonna be able to give them that information down the road. Like your firm showed up, it’s 16 searches this week and they were looking for X, Y, Z.
So the same way that…
firms, these in-house council are unaware of what’s going on in the market and that benefits smaller firms they didn’t know of. It also can benefit larger firms as they grow and as they grow different departments and different practices because what these in-house councils are really looking for are experts, people who really focus in and hone on the area that they’re looking for. And we can make that
more evident to them when they’re in there doing a search. I didn’t know they had an office in this city and I didn’t know they had people that did this work here. We’re going to make that really evident when they’re in there searching for the attorney that they need to hire. As for longstanding relationships, it’s not guaranteed they’re going to always keep them in the long run anyway. They have to stay competitive. They have to stay good at their game and they have to deliver.
they have to deliver the goods. Just because they might want to hire a small law firm on a particular matter in that same area doesn’t mean they’re not going to use that big law firm again. There’s all kinds of work and all kinds of cases that they are trying to find the right fit for. I don’t think this is going to harm big law firms. I think in the end, it’s really going to help them because it’s going to help people be more aware.
of the talent that they have available and the locations that they have it available. I think there’s also a difference too in billing rates for different attorneys at the firm. A firm doesn’t have to list the billing rate of the superstars at the firm. They can list the billing rates of the up and coming attorneys if they want to get them in the game and make them more competitive. There’s lots of different ways this can help firms of all sizes. It’s creating a different kind of marketplace.
And when firms participate and put their information in there, it’s just going to help them get more business. I am just positive of that.
Phil Flora (14:58)
Yeah, I’ll just add real quick and it’s pure business development opportunity. It’s really meant to really help law firms of all sizes really differentiate themselves, right? Highlight the things that make them stand out, make offices, make their individual attorneys stand out. So it’s way to, it’s really just gonna be a way to engage and create new opportunities from both sides of the coin.
Laura Leopard (15:02)
It is.
Yeah.
Marlene Gebauer (15:24)
Okay, so let’s get into the analytics a little bit. So one of the unique features of Leopard PROWESS is the 360 firm report and ranking system. So Phil, can you walk us through how firms are ranked and how the corporate legal team should use these rankings to make informed decisions?
Phil Flora (15:45)
So right now, the ranking, one of the big ranking pieces that drive this analysis is our law firm, Leopard Law Firm index. So each firm in our database gets a score on a zero to 500 scale. There’s over 5,600 firms, as Laura had mentioned, and each gets a score and they get a status on how that firm is doing at any moment in time. We update our data twice a week, scores on the firms, get change week to week as attorneys are coming, as attorneys are
are leaving. So our index tracks headcount growth and decline. It tracks retention, both long term and short term retention. So firms that are able to hire, able to retain, able to have very diverse attorneys across both the attorney base and the partnership base, how well they promote folks. There’s a financial component just really to identify firms that are growing as opposed to going through
you know, sort of turbulent times and ups and downs, but primarily it’s meant to give you a look, a snapshot, a look right now in current form, how a firm is conducting and the real quick snapshot, right? So that’s one of the key ranking pieces that we have over time as we collect data from in-house counsel, as they rate and score the engagements that they have with the firms, that’s only going to increase, right? So as firms
do work with in-house counsel, they’re to be able to score and rate the effectiveness of that work, the quality of that work, how cost effective it was, the way they engage, pure client feedback, right? So there’s a lot of firms that utilize client feedback programs to make sure their clients are happy and everything else. This will be a piece of the BROWS program. That data, if an in-house counsel is willing to share it, will be additional.
differentiator that law firms will be able to showcase that their folks are very engaged with their clients, that they do great work. It’ll be another highlight from the law firm’s perspective for the quality of work that they deliver. And from the in-house perspective, it’s another differentiator they can use while comparing firms and attorneys amongst themselves. So that’s going to be a component that’s going to develop over time. And, know, as users are using that product and everything else, but it’ll be another ranking piece.
that’s going to just organically grow.
Greg Lambert (18:16)
And do you plan on like surveying the in-house council on not just results and getting your feedback, but maybe there may be other metrics that they want to be able to track. How do you kind of advance things as time goes along?
Laura Leopard (18:34)
Well, right now it is in a beta period and it is free for corporations to use all through November. So the end of November, it’s all free for them to use. that’s a handshake deal because we want to hear from them.
what they like, what they don’t like, what they think it needs. So we’re gonna be spending the next several months looking at all the different tweaks. Now we have a lot of ideas of things that we’re gonna put in here. have lots of different things that we’re working on, but it’s really important to us to hear directly from them. What’s important to them? What are the changes that they’re looking for? What would make this even more useful? I have to say from all of the companies that have seen it so far, they are a gog.
because they had no idea that anything like this could ever exist. So they are quite taken aback. once they’ve used it for a few weeks, then I think we can get some meaningful feedback from them. Everything that we do at Leopard really comes from our customer feedback. What do you need? What are you looking for? What would make your life easier? And to their great surprise, we were able to deliver it.
So that’s what we’re going to be doing for our corporate council over the next few months.
Greg Lambert (19:56)
So I know with corporate counsel, there’s a lot of pressure. So you had mentioned earlier about alternative fee arrangements and that being higher on the need list these days. There’s other issues such as diversity in the legal industry and how their matters are represented. So how does PROWESS
Laura Leopard (20:18)
Yeah.
Greg Lambert (20:25)
help the in-house teams kind of identify along with what their priorities are. then, well, let me ask you that, and then I’m gonna ask you about the law firm side. So how do you identify those needs if I’m in-house counsel?
Laura Leopard (20:43)
Well, we are going to be doing a big push with law firms starting next week to get them in and get their data in. We’ll be talking to SharePoint clients and talking to Leopard clients. And one of the things we’re asking them to put in is what alternative fee agreements, you know, are they amenable to? What will, what do they do on a regular basis? What, you know, what will they consider doing? And that goes right into the platform. When we have enough information in there,
then that will be one of the search filters that they can use. I want to see firms in Denver that do construction that also accept a contingency fee arrangement or whatever it is that they’re looking for. So that will come from the firms directly. The diversity information comes from our database. So we have ethnic diversity information, we have gender diversity information, all of this we do on our own. This is not like self-reported or survey data.
We actually know through putting together different data points who has a high probability of being diverse, who has a low probability of being diverse. And this allows people in our normal database, in our Leopard List database, and all of our reporting databases, we can report on diversity because we actually can assign probability on an attorney-by-attorney basis. That follows through with PROWAS.
So as they’re looking at different groups that they might like to hire, we show right up front, the group that you’re looking at has about a 25 % diversity rate. The group that you’re looking at has a 0 % diversity rate. So they’re able to tell that right off the bat. If it’s important to them, they have that information right in front of
Greg Lambert (22:32)
And Phil, when you’re out there pitching this to the firms to contribute this information, how do you talk to them in a way that this is a win for them? Because I can see some saying, I don’t want to necessarily show all of my cards to the clients. So how do you convince them that this is something that’s in their best interest to do?
Laura Leopard (22:49)
Right.
Phil Flora (22:59)
That’s a great question. think anyone that’s been involved with legal tech for over 20 years has probably asked that same question about anything when we’re pitching. You know how it is in the legal community. No one wants to be the first to do anything, right? Everyone wants to follow the master. At the end of the day, we’re leaning on the fact that Leopard Solutions has overall
Greg Lambert (23:08)
Yeah
Racing for Second.
Laura Leopard (23:18)
Okay.
Phil Flora (23:29)
330 law firm clients. SurePoint has about a thousand small and mid-sized firms that trust working with us, that know the value of our data. So when they heard we launched this product, they immediately reached out because they know the quality of what we have and they know the impact it can have on the buying power for in-house counsel. So the reaction has been fairly positive because they see it as another way for them to raise the visibility, to showcase the things that they
you know, if there’s a way, like we haven’t historically accepted a lot of information directly from law firms. This is an opportunity that now they can contribute some things to help highlight some of the features of the firm that they want to really focus in on. So again, it’s been very positive thus far. You know, I think it’s only gonna grow. And know, as more people use the platforms, just like anything else, as they see it happen, they’ll follow the lemons over the edge, right?
Greg Lambert (24:28)
Yeah, well I imagine our audience, a red flag went up when you said allowing the law firms to input the data. How do you verify that to make sure that no one, I know we’re all playing fair here, but you know, there might be somebody that wants to game the system a little bit. So how do you kind of make sure that doesn’t happen?
Phil Flora (24:29)
I just.
Laura Leopard (24:49)
Well, we’re asking them for billing rates and we’re asking them for, you know, what alternative fee agreements that they accept. If they say that in the platform and then they don’t deliver on those, then that’s really on them. That’s really on them. So I think in this area, one thing that most people know is that
not everybody pays an advertised rate, right? And all of these in-house councils are also gonna be negotiating those rates. They’ll look at that as sort of the ballpark that they enter in. But it’s really up to them and then they will be talking to in-house councils and if the rates that they’re offering doesn’t match what’s in the system, then that’s something that they would have to deal with.
Phil Flora (25:36)
Right. It’s important to note.
Greg Lambert (25:38)
in the pudding.
Phil Flora (25:39)
All the other data that really is going to be highlighted in showcase is driven by our Lippard data collection process that we’ve been doing for 20 years. That’s something important to note as we’ve had conversations, we were just at the ACC conference. So the in-house community, we’re sort of new to that. So when they saw us at the conference, we came to this with the idea that Prowers is a new product, but it’s really, I’ve been calling it a repackaging of our product more than anything else because it’s
Laura Leopard (26:02)
Yeah.
Phil Flora (26:09)
by the 20 years of research and history and data collection that we have. Out of the box, it’s a viable product, day one. It’s only going to get better as it goes forward as we get additional information and input and data that could be provided by both the in-house and law firms.
Marlene Gebauer (26:23)
So, you guys know the drill at the end of the podcast. have the crystal ball question and, this will be posed to each of you. you know, what’s your long-term vision for leopard prowess and what do you see it evolving into the next few years? to stay ahead of the curve and legal technology.
Greg Lambert (26:26)
You
Marlene Gebauer (26:45)
Who wants to go first?
Laura Leopard (26:48)
Well, we have so many plans. We really do have so many plans.
Phil Flora (26:49)
Bye.
Laura Leopard (26:52)
But I do think down the road, it can evolve into a different type of marketplace as well. So it can eventually become a place where they just post matters and then people can bid on those matters. There’s lots of different things that you can do with AI to add new data points. There’s lots of different features that we can offer that are on the board.
But I really do think this has the ability, it has the opportunity to really grow into something enormous and to really help change how law firms and in-house counsel work together. I would like to see more transparency between the two. I think there are things we can tell law firms in a general way about what corporate councils are looking for and doing in the platform.
and give them some sort of inkling about how they’re doing on a matter. Wouldn’t that be great? Yeah, we’re having a problem with communication with our attorney and that gets back to the attorney. That’s something they can fix, right? I think there’s going to be lots of opportunities to really create a different way all of this can work that’s more efficient, that’s more transparent, and can help both sides of the coin. Because at the end of the day, they’re working together here. They’re working together and I think we can help make
better.
Greg Lambert (28:21)
I did want to point out that we were like over 27 minutes into the recording before AI popped up. that may be a record for… And Phil, what’s your thoughts on the future?
Marlene Gebauer (28:29)
I count that as a win. I count that as a win.
Laura Leopard (28:31)
Yeah.
Phil Flora (28:32)
Thank
Well, you know, it’s funny looking into the future. I was looking to the past. Right? So my, my history, I’ve, I’ve always been.
Laura Leopard (28:37)
Yeah.
Phil Flora (28:45)
in the role where I’ve worked with law firms and organizations on using research to help them run their business better. And I think we now have an opportunity to do that with in-house counsel, and we really never have in the past. think that to me is probably the thing I’m most excited about. I get super excited every time we’re actually able to have conversations with senior leaders and organizations about how our product has actually had an amazing impact on their business and their year and their role within the
Laura Leopard (29:05)
Thank you so much. Good to talk with both of you.
Phil Flora (29:15)
organization and it would be great to have those conversations with the general council as well. So that’s what I’m most excited about.
Greg Lambert (29:23)
Laura Leopard and Phil Flora from Leopard Solutions. I want to thank you both for coming back on the show. It’s always pleasure talking with you.
Phil Flora (29:31)
Thank you guys. Have a nice time.
Marlene Gebauer (29:36)
And of course, thanks to all of you, our listeners, for taking the time to listen to the Geek in Review podcast. If you enjoyed the show, share it with a colleague. We’d love to hear from you, so reach out to us on LinkedIn.
Greg Lambert (29:47)
And Laura and Phil, we’ll make sure we put some links on the show notes, but what’s the best way for people to find out more about prowess or to reach out to you guys directly?
Phil Flora (29:58)
We have a dedicated page on our website about Leopard PROWESS and actually the video that Laura created, which is super impressive in the five minutes that she had. I think she might have done that while she was in Italy. But it’s a really cool video that kind of showcases the product and is a way they can fill out, you know, learn a little bit more. We can chat with them from there. So just leopardsolutions.com slash leverage.
Laura Leopard (29:58)
Thank
Phil Flora (30:23)
You’ll have to their prowess. They’ll be able to identify it. We’ll give you the link.
Marlene Gebauer (30:30)
And as always, the music you hear is from Jerry David De Sica. So thank you very much, Jerry.
Laura Leopard (30:31)
Thank you.
Greg Lambert (30:35)
Thanks Jerry. Alright Marlene, I’ll talk to you later.